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	<title>Comments on: Challenging Internet search tasks</title>
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	<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: cheryloakes</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38061</link>
		<dc:creator>cheryloakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 00:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38061</guid>
		<description>This is my favorite site for helping students understand internet research. BTW, this site also helps teachers get grounded in the options.

http://21cif.imsa.edu/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my favorite site for helping students understand internet research. BTW, this site also helps teachers get grounded in the options.</p>
<p><a href="http://21cif.imsa.edu/" rel="nofollow">http://21cif.imsa.edu/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Wesley Fryer</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38024</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley Fryer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38024</guid>
		<description>Carl: Unfortunately I did miss that NECC session but I checked out &lt;a href="http://21cif.imsa.edu/" rel="nofollow"&gt;your website&lt;/a&gt; and the materials there look great. Thanks for the comment and the pointer to more resources on more effective searching. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl: Unfortunately I did miss that NECC session but I checked out <a href="http://21cif.imsa.edu/" rel="nofollow">your website</a> and the materials there look great. Thanks for the comment and the pointer to more resources on more effective searching. <img src='http://www.speedofcreativity.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Carl Heine</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38023</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Heine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38023</guid>
		<description>Maybe you missed the session on Five Obstacles to Information Fluency on Monday, but this is a good example of the power of using a number (2007) and proper nouns (january, itunes) in a query. On average, 80% of the words people try in queries are not good "as is." Wes's query is a good example of short and sweet (and avoids operators other than AND).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe you missed the session on Five Obstacles to Information Fluency on Monday, but this is a good example of the power of using a number (2007) and proper nouns (january, itunes) in a query. On average, 80% of the words people try in queries are not good &#8220;as is.&#8221; Wes&#8217;s query is a good example of short and sweet (and avoids operators other than AND).</p>
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		<title>By: Monday lunchtime linkage</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38012</link>
		<dc:creator>Monday lunchtime linkage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38012</guid>
		<description>[...] Wes Fryer is wondering how schools should teach children how to do complex web searches and other nontrivial computer tasks. I made the point in the comments that Vernor Vinge, as usual, saw this issue coming a decade earlier in his short story &#8220;Fast Times at Fairmont High&#8220;. And I agree with Wes that executing a precisely targeted search contains some very high-level cognitive tasks that can&#8217;t be taken for granted among kids. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wes Fryer is wondering how schools should teach children how to do complex web searches and other nontrivial computer tasks. I made the point in the comments that Vernor Vinge, as usual, saw this issue coming a decade earlier in his short story &#8220;Fast Times at Fairmont High&#8220;. And I agree with Wes that executing a precisely targeted search contains some very high-level cognitive tasks that can&#8217;t be taken for granted among kids. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38011</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38011</guid>
		<description>Er, make that "Fast Times at &lt;b&gt;Fairmont&lt;/b&gt; High". Not to be confused with the Sean Penn movie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er, make that &#8220;Fast Times at <b>Fairmont</b> High&#8221;. Not to be confused with the Sean Penn movie.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38010</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38010</guid>
		<description>Vernor Vinge saw this one coming. If you read his short story "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" or the expanded novelized verion &lt;em&gt;Rainbows End&lt;/em&gt;, the protagonists are kids in high school 20 years from now. One of their core courses they are working on is called "Search and Analysis". 

Actually those two stories have a lot of School 2.0 stuff embedded in them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vernor Vinge saw this one coming. If you read his short story &#8220;Fast Times at Ridgemont High&#8221; or the expanded novelized verion <em>Rainbows End</em>, the protagonists are kids in high school 20 years from now. One of their core courses they are working on is called &#8220;Search and Analysis&#8221;. </p>
<p>Actually those two stories have a lot of School 2.0 stuff embedded in them.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Cottrell</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38005</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Cottrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38005</guid>
		<description>Fryer &#38; MGuhlin 2.0 â€“ Self-actuated learning multiplied via collaboration and reflected/communicated through the use of Internet technology to a connected community of learners. (All opensource and creative-commons of course)

All kidding aside, thanks for the light guys.  I will attempt to carry the torch.  Implementing these ideas is the hard part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fryer &amp; MGuhlin 2.0 â€“ Self-actuated learning multiplied via collaboration and reflected/communicated through the use of Internet technology to a connected community of learners. (All opensource and creative-commons of course)</p>
<p>All kidding aside, thanks for the light guys.  I will attempt to carry the torch.  Implementing these ideas is the hard part.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Cottrell</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38003</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Cottrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-38003</guid>
		<description>Putting School 2.0 on a Wiki is a great idea.  I think to get School 2.0  up and running, it will have to mingle with and then supplant the current School 1.0 organization.  

It appears that Wesley's idea of School 2.0 includes self-actuated learning. Control of the learning process is one key element that is pointed to in this type of learning.  Another key element is a list of â€œcomplex, engaging and worthwhile questions learners would want to explore.â€  Wesley's School 2.0 would tap into the â€œlearner's natural desire to inquireâ€.

Wesley's School 2.0 would also provide a â€œresulting context within-which to embed new ideas as well as skillsâ€.  This would include various learning processes, various methods of collaboration to multiply learning, an assortment of ways to communicate the stuff learned, and feedback from a community of learners.  Wesley sees classroom practices combined with Web 2.0 technologies as a way to accomplish all this.

A School 2.0 Wiki could contain School 2.0 implementations meshed with a School 1.0 organization to get teachers started.  
One part of the Wiki could be organized by subject and be a break down the current curriculum of each subject into a list of Wesley's engaging questions.
A second part of the Wiki could contain a menu of processes or scaffoldings that students could be taught to follow to enhance learning.
A third part of the Wiki could contain a menu of way students could be taught to collaborate to multiply their learning.
A fourth part of the Wiki could contain a menu of ways students could be taught to connect with a community of learners to provide feedback to refine and enhance their learning.
A fifth part of the Wiki could contain a menu of ways students could be taught to communicate their learning in the form of some type of product.  
A sixth part of the Wiki could contain a menu of technologies that students could be taught to use to facilitate parts three through five of the School 2.0 Wiki.
A seventh part of the Wiki could explain and show the benefits of School 2.0 implementations the biggest of which is meaningful, authentic learning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Putting School 2.0 on a Wiki is a great idea.  I think to get School 2.0  up and running, it will have to mingle with and then supplant the current School 1.0 organization.  </p>
<p>It appears that Wesley&#8217;s idea of School 2.0 includes self-actuated learning. Control of the learning process is one key element that is pointed to in this type of learning.  Another key element is a list of â€œcomplex, engaging and worthwhile questions learners would want to explore.â€  Wesley&#8217;s School 2.0 would tap into the â€œlearner&#8217;s natural desire to inquireâ€.</p>
<p>Wesley&#8217;s School 2.0 would also provide a â€œresulting context within-which to embed new ideas as well as skillsâ€.  This would include various learning processes, various methods of collaboration to multiply learning, an assortment of ways to communicate the stuff learned, and feedback from a community of learners.  Wesley sees classroom practices combined with Web 2.0 technologies as a way to accomplish all this.</p>
<p>A School 2.0 Wiki could contain School 2.0 implementations meshed with a School 1.0 organization to get teachers started.<br />
One part of the Wiki could be organized by subject and be a break down the current curriculum of each subject into a list of Wesley&#8217;s engaging questions.<br />
A second part of the Wiki could contain a menu of processes or scaffoldings that students could be taught to follow to enhance learning.<br />
A third part of the Wiki could contain a menu of way students could be taught to collaborate to multiply their learning.<br />
A fourth part of the Wiki could contain a menu of ways students could be taught to connect with a community of learners to provide feedback to refine and enhance their learning.<br />
A fifth part of the Wiki could contain a menu of ways students could be taught to communicate their learning in the form of some type of product.<br />
A sixth part of the Wiki could contain a menu of technologies that students could be taught to use to facilitate parts three through five of the School 2.0 Wiki.<br />
A seventh part of the Wiki could explain and show the benefits of School 2.0 implementations the biggest of which is meaningful, authentic learning.</p>
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		<title>By: Wesley Fryer</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37999</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley Fryer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 14:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37999</guid>
		<description>Kern and Jim: I hadn't heard of Midomi or Songtapper! How cool! I added those links at the bottom of my &lt;a href="http://teachdigital.pbwiki.com/digitalmusic" rel="nofollow"&gt;Digital Music Creation workshop curriculum&lt;/a&gt; under "other resources." 

lajones, I agree the vocational needs/workforce side of the school 2.0 conversation will likely be more powerful and have more traction than the pedagogical philosophy. I see close parallels between these in some cases, however. The issue of "what everyone needs to learn" is a critical one. For too long I think we've assumed all students need to learn everything, basically, and I don't think that's true. Number one, they cannot, and number two, this idea has resulted in our current situation of a required high school curriculum which is a mile wide and in many cases an inch deep. The "recommended" college prep curriculum is now required for most students in most schools I've worked in or with. My thoughts on this are highly colored by E.D. Hirsch's book "Cultural Literacy," and I do agree with the idea that we need common vocabulary and schema for many things to have a conversation. It's more difficult to have a conversation about the genocide in Darfur if someone doesn't know about the Holocaust during WWII.

Mathematics presents somewhat different challenges. Our "system" has included a fixed set of sequential courses in math for so many years, and those teaching these courses are particularly (at least in my experience) committed to the maintenance of that status quo of course offerings. This current system doesn't work for many kids, however. It's not that they can't do math, I think the instructional approach is often too disconnected to the real world and their own experiences to really "hook" into their brains and learning. Of course some kids seem to just be "naturals" when it comes to math. And, there is also the issue of hard work: Learning math or many other things can be hard and require hard work, and many people don't want to study hard. They want learning to be easy, like watching a video or playing a video game, and it simply isn't in many cases. The issues are complex.

I'm glad my thoughts resonated with you, and I appreciate your feedback. These are certainly ideas that are "under construction" in my brain right now, as they have been for many years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kern and Jim: I hadn&#8217;t heard of Midomi or Songtapper! How cool! I added those links at the bottom of my <a href="http://teachdigital.pbwiki.com/digitalmusic" rel="nofollow">Digital Music Creation workshop curriculum</a> under &#8220;other resources.&#8221; </p>
<p>lajones, I agree the vocational needs/workforce side of the school 2.0 conversation will likely be more powerful and have more traction than the pedagogical philosophy. I see close parallels between these in some cases, however. The issue of &#8220;what everyone needs to learn&#8221; is a critical one. For too long I think we&#8217;ve assumed all students need to learn everything, basically, and I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s true. Number one, they cannot, and number two, this idea has resulted in our current situation of a required high school curriculum which is a mile wide and in many cases an inch deep. The &#8220;recommended&#8221; college prep curriculum is now required for most students in most schools I&#8217;ve worked in or with. My thoughts on this are highly colored by E.D. Hirsch&#8217;s book &#8220;Cultural Literacy,&#8221; and I do agree with the idea that we need common vocabulary and schema for many things to have a conversation. It&#8217;s more difficult to have a conversation about the genocide in Darfur if someone doesn&#8217;t know about the Holocaust during WWII.</p>
<p>Mathematics presents somewhat different challenges. Our &#8220;system&#8221; has included a fixed set of sequential courses in math for so many years, and those teaching these courses are particularly (at least in my experience) committed to the maintenance of that status quo of course offerings. This current system doesn&#8217;t work for many kids, however. It&#8217;s not that they can&#8217;t do math, I think the instructional approach is often too disconnected to the real world and their own experiences to really &#8220;hook&#8221; into their brains and learning. Of course some kids seem to just be &#8220;naturals&#8221; when it comes to math. And, there is also the issue of hard work: Learning math or many other things can be hard and require hard work, and many people don&#8217;t want to study hard. They want learning to be easy, like watching a video or playing a video game, and it simply isn&#8217;t in many cases. The issues are complex.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad my thoughts resonated with you, and I appreciate your feedback. These are certainly ideas that are &#8220;under construction&#8221; in my brain right now, as they have been for many years.</p>
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		<title>By: lajones</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37996</link>
		<dc:creator>lajones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 14:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37996</guid>
		<description>We do need to expand computer science coursework in our schools or we will not have the infrastructure required to support other areas of interests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We do need to expand computer science coursework in our schools or we will not have the infrastructure required to support other areas of interests.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs. Durff</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37995</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs. Durff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 14:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37995</guid>
		<description>I so agree! Technology and all it can provide the learner is best integrated into the curricular courses that are already offered. The best we have to offer will include technology embedded just as literacy is embedded in science or math is embedded in art.
We don't need any separate courses, but our admins aren't there yet. I don't think our kids are there yet either, not en masse. You are forward thinking, Wes, keep leading the way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I so agree! Technology and all it can provide the learner is best integrated into the curricular courses that are already offered. The best we have to offer will include technology embedded just as literacy is embedded in science or math is embedded in art.<br />
We don&#8217;t need any separate courses, but our admins aren&#8217;t there yet. I don&#8217;t think our kids are there yet either, not en masse. You are forward thinking, Wes, keep leading the way!</p>
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		<title>By: lajones</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37994</link>
		<dc:creator>lajones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 14:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37994</guid>
		<description>Wes,
This is a very interesting and informative post.  Thank you!

Your statement, "School 2.0 should mean many things, but primary among them should be the goal of permitting learners to have a greater degree of control over their own learning and the resulting provision of a resulting context within-which to embed new ideas as well as skills" beautifully encompasses the direction that I believe will be beneficial to our students.  (Although I think it may come from an understanding of the demands of the world we live in, rather than educational philosophies in general.)

Regarding curriculum...I am a calculus/algebra 2 teacher.  I feel a great responsibility to the students at all levels in high school mathematics to ensure that they are able to learn the concepts that will support their success in the next course of their choosing.  We do divert from the subject at hand on occasion to address their individual needs, but I take very seriously my responsibility to teach the appropriate concepts that will prepare them for the future.

Which concepts should be taught at certain levels is a very difficult and sometimes daunting task.  All of my colleagues take this huge responsibility very personally.  We all want to do what is best for the students.

Now, on the other hand...It is very disheartening for me when a senior year algebra 2 student mentions to me that they have just realized how much they enjoy mathematics and have decided to go into a math related field.  Knowing that it will be very difficult for them on entry to college because of the lack of exposure to more advanced concepts in high school, I try to encourage them to stick to their dreams.  I explain the possible hurddles that they may encounter and remind them that I am always available any time they mean help in the future.  (Students and parents all have my home and cell numbers, as well as email, etc...)

In summary, challenging coursework is very beneficial when we prepare the students for that challenge.  Flexibility is extremely important so that students are not limited in any way by this coursework.  All learners should be encouraged to seek the knowledge/wisdom that they desire in addition to learning to work cooperatively within a system that must have their best interests at heart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wes,<br />
This is a very interesting and informative post.  Thank you!</p>
<p>Your statement, &#8220;School 2.0 should mean many things, but primary among them should be the goal of permitting learners to have a greater degree of control over their own learning and the resulting provision of a resulting context within-which to embed new ideas as well as skills&#8221; beautifully encompasses the direction that I believe will be beneficial to our students.  (Although I think it may come from an understanding of the demands of the world we live in, rather than educational philosophies in general.)</p>
<p>Regarding curriculum&#8230;I am a calculus/algebra 2 teacher.  I feel a great responsibility to the students at all levels in high school mathematics to ensure that they are able to learn the concepts that will support their success in the next course of their choosing.  We do divert from the subject at hand on occasion to address their individual needs, but I take very seriously my responsibility to teach the appropriate concepts that will prepare them for the future.</p>
<p>Which concepts should be taught at certain levels is a very difficult and sometimes daunting task.  All of my colleagues take this huge responsibility very personally.  We all want to do what is best for the students.</p>
<p>Now, on the other hand&#8230;It is very disheartening for me when a senior year algebra 2 student mentions to me that they have just realized how much they enjoy mathematics and have decided to go into a math related field.  Knowing that it will be very difficult for them on entry to college because of the lack of exposure to more advanced concepts in high school, I try to encourage them to stick to their dreams.  I explain the possible hurddles that they may encounter and remind them that I am always available any time they mean help in the future.  (Students and parents all have my home and cell numbers, as well as email, etc&#8230;)</p>
<p>In summary, challenging coursework is very beneficial when we prepare the students for that challenge.  Flexibility is extremely important so that students are not limited in any way by this coursework.  All learners should be encouraged to seek the knowledge/wisdom that they desire in addition to learning to work cooperatively within a system that must have their best interests at heart.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Cottrell</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37970</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Cottrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37970</guid>
		<description>There is also songtapper.com for finding the name of a song.  One taps the rhythm of the song on the spacebar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also songtapper.com for finding the name of a song.  One taps the rhythm of the song on the spacebar.</p>
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		<title>By: Kern Kelley</title>
		<link>http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37909</link>
		<dc:creator>Kern Kelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/07/01/challenging-internet-search-tasks/#comment-37909</guid>
		<description>Wes, do you know about www.midomi.com? You can search for music by singing or humming part of a song. I've tried with a couple standard songs (Happy Birthday, etc.) not sure if it would work for something more obscure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wes, do you know about <a href="http://www.midomi.com?" rel="nofollow">http://www.midomi.com?</a> You can search for music by singing or humming part of a song. I&#8217;ve tried with a couple standard songs (Happy Birthday, etc.) not sure if it would work for something more obscure.</p>
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