Comments on: Tragedy on the Kingfisher bridge http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/08/04/tragedy-on-the-kingfisher-bridge/ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:56:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: tom http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/08/04/tragedy-on-the-kingfisher-bridge/comment-page-1/#comment-39360 tom Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:17:27 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/08/04/tragedy-on-the-kingfisher-bridge/#comment-39360 Wes, That really is tragic, and I think you hit on something very critical: "encourage a school as well as community culture that encourages reasoned risk taking and helps students learn from their mistakes in life". Currently parents, communities and the legal system put an expectation on schools to minimize risks to students, and to ensure student success without having to experience failures. We have divorced mistakes and risk from learning., and the apprentice-craftsman mode of teaching skills and judgment is considered antiquated. But of course no craftsman would agree to take on 30 apprentices at the same time either. There's just not enough time for mistakes and not enough insurance for risks. Wes,
That really is tragic, and I think you hit on something very critical:
“encourage a school as well as community culture that encourages reasoned risk taking and helps students learn from their mistakes in life”.
Currently parents, communities and the legal system put an expectation on schools to minimize risks to students, and to ensure student success without having to experience failures. We have divorced mistakes and risk from learning., and the apprentice-craftsman mode of teaching skills and judgment is considered antiquated. But of course no craftsman would agree to take on 30 apprentices at the same time either. There’s just not enough time for mistakes and not enough insurance for risks.

]]> By: Tina Steele http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/08/04/tragedy-on-the-kingfisher-bridge/comment-page-1/#comment-39322 Tina Steele Mon, 06 Aug 2007 03:48:18 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/08/04/tragedy-on-the-kingfisher-bridge/#comment-39322 Wes. Thank you for sharing these stories. It is especially meaningful since I also live in OK. My own son has had his struggles, and I was lucky that caring people had his school recognized his suicidal tendencies in middle school. Students today have so many things bombarding them. The breakdown of the family has contributed to so many problems. My son has never been the same when his girlfriend died at age 15 of leukemia. (They burried her on her 16th birthday). Death is difficult for young people to understand. On a less serious note: I’ve tagged you on 8 random facts meme http://mstina.wordpress.com Wes. Thank you for sharing these stories. It is especially meaningful since I also live in OK. My own son has had his struggles, and I was lucky that caring people had his school recognized his suicidal tendencies in middle school. Students today have so many things bombarding them. The breakdown of the family has contributed to so many problems. My son has never been the same when his girlfriend died at age 15 of leukemia. (They burried her on her 16th birthday). Death is difficult for young people to understand.

On a less serious note:

I’ve tagged you on 8 random facts meme
http://mstina.wordpress.com

]]> By: Gary Stager http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/08/04/tragedy-on-the-kingfisher-bridge/comment-page-1/#comment-39312 Gary Stager Sun, 05 Aug 2007 17:28:56 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/08/04/tragedy-on-the-kingfisher-bridge/#comment-39312 I left out a thought implicit in my last message (which is obviously being screened now since I included URLs.) It's not as if schools don't already teach that it's a bad idea to take drugs or jump off bridges. I left out a thought implicit in my last message (which is obviously being screened now since I included URLs.)

It’s not as if schools don’t already teach that it’s a bad idea to take drugs or jump off bridges.

]]> By: Gary Stager http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/08/04/tragedy-on-the-kingfisher-bridge/comment-page-1/#comment-39311 Gary Stager Sun, 05 Aug 2007 17:21:39 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2007/08/04/tragedy-on-the-kingfisher-bridge/#comment-39311 Hi Wes, I surely understand how moved you were by these two tragedies and I also desire your desire to "do something." Sure, schools could be more personal intimate places where kids and adults sustained better relationships. Schools ARE often cold thoughtless places. I went looking for the newspaper article from 2001 that told the story of the Indianapolis school sophomores forced to take the state standardized tests on 9/11 AFTER they watched the planes hit buildings in America. One principal quoted in the article said that he told the terrified students that they could talk about their feelings AFTER they paid attention and did well on the test. I know that Open Court, Success for All and other shrink-wrapped curricula for "other kids" may talk about dogs, but disallow a little boy from finishing a heartfelt expression of sadness that began with, "Teacher, my dog died last night." If you're yearning for schools to be better places for kids, I'm with you. If you think the answer is some sort of curriculum where "they focus on issues that matter," then your well-meaning intent will inevitably deteriorate into the transmission of information. Don't do drugs! Don't jump off bridges! Anytime schools try to standardize any good idea, things go awry. When you shrinkwrap something it dies. Just look at D.A.R.E. It seems like a mentoring program, right? Mentoring is good, we are told. Well, having officer Billy come into schools to scare kids and snitch on their family members has turned out to be wildly ineffective, yet school leaders lack the courage to just say no to "just say no." Perhaps we could ban the DARE Program from schools and recover the time for recess, band, art or theatre - activities that make us human, not paranoid snitches. Do you really think that being told that or even discussing your feelings in a coercive classroom setting, such as in a health class, will make a difference? Sadly I don't. I guess the best we can do is be nice to the kids we meet and hope for the best. FYI... Here are but a few D.A.R.E. references... http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/youthissues/1059145293.html http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/controversies/20070705122620.html http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/94/6/1027 http://erx.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/17/2/221 http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0037-7791(199408)41%3A3%3C448%3ATADTDE%3E2.0.CO%3B2-T http://www.reconsider.org/issues/education/dare.htm http://www.druglibrary.org/think/~jnr/oakland.htm http://www.ci.slc.ut.us/mayor/pressreleases/Dare%20Revamp%2021501.htm http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/war.on.drugs/action/ Hi Wes,

I surely understand how moved you were by these two tragedies and I also desire your desire to “do something.” Sure, schools could be more personal intimate places where kids and adults sustained better relationships.

Schools ARE often cold thoughtless places. I went looking for the newspaper article from 2001 that told the story of the Indianapolis school sophomores forced to take the state standardized tests on 9/11 AFTER they watched the planes hit buildings in America. One principal quoted in the article said that he told the terrified students that they could talk about their feelings AFTER they paid attention and did well on the test. I know that Open Court, Success for All and other shrink-wrapped curricula for “other kids” may talk about dogs, but disallow a little boy from finishing a heartfelt expression of sadness that began with, “Teacher, my dog died last night.”

If you’re yearning for schools to be better places for kids, I’m with you. If you think the answer is some sort of curriculum where “they focus on issues that matter,” then your well-meaning intent will inevitably deteriorate into the transmission of information. Don’t do drugs! Don’t jump off bridges!

Anytime schools try to standardize any good idea, things go awry. When you shrinkwrap something it dies. Just look at D.A.R.E. It seems like a mentoring program, right? Mentoring is good, we are told. Well, having officer Billy come into schools to scare kids and snitch on their family members has turned out to be wildly ineffective, yet school leaders lack the courage to just say no to “just say no.” Perhaps we could ban the DARE Program from schools and recover the time for recess, band, art or theatre - activities that make us human, not paranoid snitches.

Do you really think that being told that or even discussing your feelings in a coercive classroom setting, such as in a health class, will make a difference? Sadly I don’t. I guess the best we can do is be nice to the kids we meet and hope for the best.

FYI… Here are but a few D.A.R.E. references…

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/youthissues/1059145293.html
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/controversies/20070705122620.html
http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/94/6/1027
http://erx.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/17/2/221
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0037-7791(199408)41%3A3%3C448%3ATADTDE%3E2.0.CO%3B2-T
http://www.reconsider.org/issues/education/dare.htm
http://www.druglibrary.org/think/~jnr/oakland.htm
http://www.ci.slc.ut.us/mayor/pressreleases/Dare%20Revamp%2021501.htm
http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/war.on.drugs/action/

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