Comments on: A worthless worksheet and a voluntary VoiceThread http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/ Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:36:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Jane Carroll http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60567 Jane Carroll Sun, 12 Oct 2008 03:48:37 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60567 Quite a few of the "precious heartbeats" were spent making the voice thread, planning etc and few if any of the children in your daughters class would have been able to complete this sort of task without significant adult support. There is ample research that shows any sort of homework task beyond reading and basic facts are simply going to make the able child more able and reinforce for the less able that they are not as successful. However, to give your child's teacher some credit, don't you think they would have given the task simply for what it may be - a short, simple reinforcement for work covered in class or a presupposed skill that (s)he needs to check is solidly in place for the children in their class? I would assume the sheet would have taken only a few minutes to complete. And maybe thats the point? Phonological awareness IS a critical pre-reading/writing/spelling skill. Without the ability to syllabify children struggle to 'chunk' when decoding text in reading, or encoding in spelling/writing. Check out the workshop notes for the ULearn workshop Greg and I gave last week at http://blog.core-ed.net/greg/2008/10/phonological-awareness-workshop.html. They will give further background on PA as a skill. My own research shows many adults (including some teachers!) would not be able to complete the sheet you have posted above. It is a skill we presume children have - often incorrectly for 5/6/7yr olds. While I too am not a big fan of sheets, in this case it may very well have been a sound (ha - pun intended) choice for your child's teacher to make. The fact you have had such a valuable discussion around the story book with your child as a result of the homework task may in fact point to the value of it? And again make the point about the primary value of homework for the able and the supported? Cheers Jane Quite a few of the “precious heartbeats” were spent making the voice thread, planning etc and few if any of the children in your daughters class would have been able to complete this sort of task without significant adult support.
There is ample research that shows any sort of homework task beyond reading and basic facts are simply going to make the able child more able and reinforce for the less able that they are not as successful.
However, to give your child’s teacher some credit, don’t you think they would have given the task simply for what it may be - a short, simple reinforcement for work covered in class or a presupposed skill that (s)he needs to check is solidly in place for the children in their class? I would assume the sheet would have taken only a few minutes to complete. And maybe thats the point?

Phonological awareness IS a critical pre-reading/writing/spelling skill. Without the ability to syllabify children struggle to ‘chunk’ when decoding text in reading, or encoding in spelling/writing.
Check out the workshop notes for the ULearn workshop Greg and I gave last week at http://blog.core-ed.net/greg/2008/10/phonological-awareness-workshop.html. They will give further background on PA as a skill. My own research shows many adults (including some teachers!) would not be able to complete the sheet you have posted above.
It is a skill we presume children have - often incorrectly for 5/6/7yr olds.

While I too am not a big fan of sheets, in this case it may very well have been a sound (ha - pun intended) choice for your child’s teacher to make. The fact you have had such a valuable discussion around the story book with your child as a result of the homework task may in fact point to the value of it? And again make the point about the primary value of homework for the able and the supported?
Cheers Jane

]]> By: Wesley Fryer http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60565 Wesley Fryer Sun, 12 Oct 2008 02:32:26 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60565 LKF: Again I am not discounting the value of discussing syllables and learning about them. I fail to see how this worksheet could possibly "enable independence and responsibility" in my child. Claims like that, which according to the meta-analysis done by Alfie Kohn, are entirely unsupported by academic research, are a big reason kids like mine continue to get worksheets like this sent home. I'm not arguing here no one should discuss or work with syllables. (I've addressed that again in previous comments.) I am saying primarily that this worksheet is and was a waste of time for my daughter. Did you listen to her discuss the novel and her ideas about it in the VoiceThread? Do you really think she needs to be counting syllables at this point to develop her literacy skills? I'm not saying she's "arrived" and has all the skills she needs at this point-- far from it, but I think there are much better ways to spend limited heartbeats after school. LKF: Again I am not discounting the value of discussing syllables and learning about them. I fail to see how this worksheet could possibly “enable independence and responsibility” in my child. Claims like that, which according to the meta-analysis done by Alfie Kohn, are entirely unsupported by academic research, are a big reason kids like mine continue to get worksheets like this sent home.

I’m not arguing here no one should discuss or work with syllables. (I’ve addressed that again in previous comments.) I am saying primarily that this worksheet is and was a waste of time for my daughter.

Did you listen to her discuss the novel and her ideas about it in the VoiceThread? Do you really think she needs to be counting syllables at this point to develop her literacy skills? I’m not saying she’s “arrived” and has all the skills she needs at this point– far from it, but I think there are much better ways to spend limited heartbeats after school.

]]> By: LKF http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60563 LKF Sun, 12 Oct 2008 02:10:47 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60563 Clearly, your misunderstanding of the use of counting syllables of words, as a prerequisite reading skill called phonemic awareness at at the root of your problem here. A work sheet advocate I am not! My preschool students count the syllables of their names and other words that are new to us by clapping the number of syllables heard in the chanting of the word. The fact that the words on your child's work sheet come directly from the story, CHARLOTTE'S WEB are to her teachers credit. Read up on Phonemic Awarness, it's relationship to dicerning words in print, and the teacher's use of the skill base in a manipulative, conceptual, hands-on way in the classroom. It is my hope that those exercises are being done in that way, in the classroom, fore if they are not, the worksheet is indeed for naught. However, if the worksheet is used as a reinforcement tool, that takes your child little time to complete, and enables independence and responsibility in your child that clearly you have may lack, the homework sheet is about a good thing. Clearly, your misunderstanding of the use of counting syllables of words, as a prerequisite reading skill called phonemic awareness at at the root of your problem here. A work sheet advocate I am not! My preschool students count the syllables of their names and other words that are new to us by clapping the number of syllables heard in the chanting of the word. The fact that the words on your child’s work sheet come directly from the story, CHARLOTTE’S WEB are to her teachers credit. Read up on Phonemic Awarness, it’s relationship to dicerning words in print, and the teacher’s use of the skill base in a manipulative, conceptual, hands-on way in the classroom. It is my hope that those exercises are being done in that way, in the classroom, fore if they are not, the worksheet is indeed for naught. However, if the worksheet is used as a reinforcement tool, that takes your child little time to complete, and enables independence and responsibility in your child that clearly you have may lack, the homework sheet is about a good thing.

]]> By: It’s Now or Never… « The Learning Rev. http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60544 It’s Now or Never… « The Learning Rev. Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:46:28 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60544 [...] must give my blog title credit to Wes’s entry “A Worthless Worksheet and Voluntary VoiceThread“. I am now a part of the revolution, and I couldn’t be more excited. I sent his blog [...] [...] must give my blog title credit to Wes’s entry “A Worthless Worksheet and Voluntary VoiceThread“. I am now a part of the revolution, and I couldn’t be more excited. I sent his blog [...]

]]> By: Wesley Fryer http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60538 Wesley Fryer Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:02:05 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60538 Jane: Certainly I agree instruction should be differentiated to meet learners' individual needs. A student who is developmentally delayed with respect to language skills or has a speech disability may not find the same learning task I provided for Sarah with VoiceThread to be as satisfying and worthwhile a learning activity. I do not think, however, that oral fluency is a skill with which we are entirely born. Certainly genetics plays into our capabilities and characteristics, but I will argue that practicing the activities of literacy is vital for developing fluency. Actually speaking, reading, and writing. Not writing numbers down beside a word. In the case of a student with special needs who is challenged with oral language communication, I'm not at all convinced a worksheet sent home which requires him/her to write down the number of syllables in a list of vocabulary words is a beneficial way to spend precious after-school minutes at home, or to develop literacy skills. Please note my critique and indictment here was not against any awareness of or practicing of the breakdown of words into differently syllables. Certainly the identification of pattern and meter is important in poetry writing, for spelling, and other contexts. I found this to be a "worthless worksheet" because: 1- This activity is not authentic (ie it is not demonstrated or used by real readers, writers, and speakers outside of school) 2- Discretionary time after school is precious and should be used in valuable ways 3- Assuming that this homework assignment IS appropriate and good for every student suggests assumptions referenced in my post about the "character building" benefits of homework in general at the elementary level which are entirely unsupported by the body of academic research we have presently. Discussing the vocabulary words and repeating some sentences with those words would have been a better activity than this worksheet. Thinking of some sentences and then recording them using VoiceThread is another possibility. There are lots of possibilities, and many of those could certainly involve discussing syllables and using that knowledge to properly pronounce as well as contextually use different words. Simply writing the number of syllables next to a long list of words is not a fruitful way to spend after-school heartbeats, however, whether the child (like my daughter) is able to independently exhibit a high level of oral communication proficiency or is significantly challenged with respect to oral language skills. Jane: Certainly I agree instruction should be differentiated to meet learners’ individual needs. A student who is developmentally delayed with respect to language skills or has a speech disability may not find the same learning task I provided for Sarah with VoiceThread to be as satisfying and worthwhile a learning activity.

I do not think, however, that oral fluency is a skill with which we are entirely born. Certainly genetics plays into our capabilities and characteristics, but I will argue that practicing the activities of literacy is vital for developing fluency. Actually speaking, reading, and writing. Not writing numbers down beside a word.

In the case of a student with special needs who is challenged with oral language communication, I’m not at all convinced a worksheet sent home which requires him/her to write down the number of syllables in a list of vocabulary words is a beneficial way to spend precious after-school minutes at home, or to develop literacy skills. Please note my critique and indictment here was not against any awareness of or practicing of the breakdown of words into differently syllables. Certainly the identification of pattern and meter is important in poetry writing, for spelling, and other contexts. I found this to be a “worthless worksheet” because:

1- This activity is not authentic (ie it is not demonstrated or used by real readers, writers, and speakers outside of school)
2- Discretionary time after school is precious and should be used in valuable ways
3- Assuming that this homework assignment IS appropriate and good for every student suggests assumptions referenced in my post about the “character building” benefits of homework in general at the elementary level which are entirely unsupported by the body of academic research we have presently.

Discussing the vocabulary words and repeating some sentences with those words would have been a better activity than this worksheet. Thinking of some sentences and then recording them using VoiceThread is another possibility. There are lots of possibilities, and many of those could certainly involve discussing syllables and using that knowledge to properly pronounce as well as contextually use different words. Simply writing the number of syllables next to a long list of words is not a fruitful way to spend after-school heartbeats, however, whether the child (like my daughter) is able to independently exhibit a high level of oral communication proficiency or is significantly challenged with respect to oral language skills.

]]> By: Jane Carroll http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60536 Jane Carroll Sat, 11 Oct 2008 08:46:45 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60536 mmm I read your comments re syllables with interest - you are very fortunate to have a child who is such a great oral communicator and how lucky your daughter is that you take an interest in her homework. I agree re your homework thoughts, we too 'suffer through some of the home work our children bring home! However, while a 'worksheet' on syllables may seem a worthless activity for your daughter it may not be for another child who is struggling with literacy. I work as a speech pathologist and a specialist reading teacher and often work with children who struggle with hearing these 'big chunks of sounds' - and then struggle to record sounds accurately in spelling. It's also important to be able to visually recognize groups of letters because decoding letter by letter which requires the child to use all their working memory, slows reading, reduces comprehension and makes reading a laborious painful experience for all involved. The words that are on the list are a great start for discussion on what the words actually mean too i.e. vocabulary building :-) mmm I read your comments re syllables with interest - you are very fortunate to have a child who is such a great oral communicator and how lucky your daughter is that you take an interest in her homework. I agree re your homework thoughts, we too ’suffer through some of the home work our children bring home! However, while a ‘worksheet’ on syllables may seem a worthless activity for your daughter it may not be for another child who is struggling with literacy. I work as a speech pathologist and a specialist reading teacher and often work with children who struggle with hearing these ‘big chunks of sounds’ - and then struggle to record sounds accurately in spelling. It’s also important to be able to visually recognize groups of letters because decoding letter by letter which requires the child to use all their working memory,
slows reading, reduces comprehension and makes reading a laborious painful experience for all involved. The words that are on the list are a great start for discussion on what the words actually mean too i.e. vocabulary building :-)

]]> By: Kathryn http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60443 Kathryn Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:51:17 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60443 That was definitely a much better us of her time. Thanks for the links to some of the great web tools. I plan on using them with my reluctant writer to help him organize his thoughts. He thinks deeply about what he reads but doesn't write well so I'm hoping that this might help him make the leap to better expression. On an unrelated note, there is an audiorecording of Trumpet of the Swan read by E.B. White with beautiful jazz trumpet interludes. I highly recommend it for your next car trip or just listening at home. That was definitely a much better us of her time. Thanks for the links to some of the great web tools. I plan on using them with my reluctant writer to help him organize his thoughts. He thinks deeply about what he reads but doesn’t write well so I’m hoping that this might help him make the leap to better expression.

On an unrelated note, there is an audiorecording of Trumpet of the Swan read by E.B. White with beautiful jazz trumpet interludes. I highly recommend it for your next car trip or just listening at home.

]]> By: Robert Rowe http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60439 Robert Rowe Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:54:43 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60439 Great project! I like how the VoiceThread project demonstrates comprehension, high-level thinking, and planning/organization. The worksheeet is only a prep for writing haikus or songwriting (the only things I could think of where syllables were important). It goes without saying that your parenting (making her complete the assignment regardless of "value") is good. I just hope you, as parents, can make some progress with the teachers and board. Great project! I like how the VoiceThread project demonstrates comprehension, high-level thinking, and planning/organization. The worksheeet is only a prep for writing haikus or songwriting (the only things I could think of where syllables were important).
It goes without saying that your parenting (making her complete the assignment regardless of “value”) is good. I just hope you, as parents, can make some progress with the teachers and board.

]]> By: Wesley Fryer http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60430 Wesley Fryer Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:47:36 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60430 Chan: I will definitely relay your comments to Sarah when I see her again this evening. If you want to leave her a comment <a href="http://learningsigns.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/charlottes-web/" rel="nofollow">on her blog post I know she'd love the direct feedback too.</a> Chan: I will definitely relay your comments to Sarah when I see her again this evening. If you want to leave her a comment on her blog post I know she’d love the direct feedback too.

]]> By: Chan Bliss http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60420 Chan Bliss Wed, 08 Oct 2008 10:40:11 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60420 Hi, Tell Sarah that she was the reason that I read this blog. Usually I just skim my RSS feed and move on to the next. But then I saw the pictures of those two pigs. "Ok" I have to stop and see what this is all about. Sarah the voice thread about Charlotte's Web was very good. Charlotte's Web is one of my favorite books but then I have a soft spot in my heart for pigs. Thank you for sharing the report. Oh, Wesley the rest of the blog was good too, I'm going to share it with some of the faculty at my school. Hi,
Tell Sarah that she was the reason that I read this blog. Usually I just skim my RSS feed and move on to the next. But then I saw the pictures of those two pigs. “Ok” I have to stop and see what this is all about. Sarah the voice thread about Charlotte’s Web was very good. Charlotte’s Web is one of my favorite books but then I have a soft spot in my heart for pigs. Thank you for sharing the report.

Oh, Wesley the rest of the blog was good too, I’m going to share it with some of the faculty at my school.

]]> By: Pat http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60419 Pat Wed, 08 Oct 2008 09:53:59 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60419 Wow! Your children are so lucky to be growing up in your household! All I can think of in defense of syllables is that maybe it will help with spelling skills? How many times have we told kids to sound it out, break it into syllables, and then spell each syllable. Other than that, I like your voicethread activity much better! I have used Utterli and it is very easy and simple to use. I would rather use my mic/computer than a phone so if you have a chance, that may be something your children would enjoy. Thanks for sharing this wonderful story! Wow! Your children are so lucky to be growing up in your household! All I can think of in defense of syllables is that maybe it will help with spelling skills? How many times have we told kids to sound it out, break it into syllables, and then spell each syllable. Other than that, I like your voicethread activity much better! I have used Utterli and it is very easy and simple to use. I would rather use my mic/computer than a phone so if you have a chance, that may be something your children would enjoy. Thanks for sharing this wonderful story!

]]> By: Louise Maine http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60418 Louise Maine Wed, 08 Oct 2008 09:33:32 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60418 I like how you are working with your daughter. My son is suffering in 9th grade academic English where they memorize large lists of pronouns, etc. that they must write down for a test. What he is asked to do is unfortunate and maddening. As a teacher in the same school, she knows how I feel about what schools should be doing. Unfortunately, she is holding many upset parents "hostage" as she grades some students more critically when there is questioning of practice. My son is creative and deserves more than this. Time to regroup. Thank you for documenting what you do. I like how you are working with your daughter. My son is suffering in 9th grade academic English where they memorize large lists of pronouns, etc. that they must write down for a test. What he is asked to do is unfortunate and maddening. As a teacher in the same school, she knows how I feel about what schools should be doing. Unfortunately, she is holding many upset parents “hostage” as she grades some students more critically when there is questioning of practice. My son is creative and deserves more than this. Time to regroup. Thank you for documenting what you do.

]]> By: Wesley Fryer http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60412 Wesley Fryer Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:14:39 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60412 Responsibility for teaching a LOT does often fall to educators rather than parents, but most of us will acknowledge (I think) that it shouldn't be that way. It does take a village. Responsibility for teaching a LOT does often fall to educators rather than parents, but most of us will acknowledge (I think) that it shouldn’t be that way. It does take a village.

]]> By: Chris Bell http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60411 Chris Bell Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:58:55 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60411 As an educator and soon-to-be parent, your post really resonates with me. Much of what we do in education appears to be a waste of time and it's really no wonder that eager learners are eventually turned off. A good example is forcing students to learn cursive writing. I cannot remember the last time I used cursive writing. Yet, there I was last year having the 4th graders practice their cursive writing because it's a district standard. They hated it and I hated it. I also found it was a waste of time when I would have to check in their weekly reading logs and check off their cursive writing practice. Bear in mind that I was a "student" teacher at the time and had limited influence in my master teacher's classroom. The classroom wiki I instituted that showcased student work has withered away from neglect, but that's another story... I'm glad you were able to provide an excellent learning opportunity that interested your daughter. What becomes of the students whose parents don't take the time and effort to do the same? Doesn't the responsibility then fall to the teachers, administrators and districts to provide relevant learning for the students? Things really have to change and fast, but unfortunately education hasn't operated that way in the past 60 years... As an educator and soon-to-be parent, your post really resonates with me. Much of what we do in education appears to be a waste of time and it’s really no wonder that eager learners are eventually turned off. A good example is forcing students to learn cursive writing. I cannot remember the last time I used cursive writing. Yet, there I was last year having the 4th graders practice their cursive writing because it’s a district standard. They hated it and I hated it. I also found it was a waste of time when I would have to check in their weekly reading logs and check off their cursive writing practice. Bear in mind that I was a “student” teacher at the time and had limited influence in my master teacher’s classroom. The classroom wiki I instituted that showcased student work has withered away from neglect, but that’s another story…

I’m glad you were able to provide an excellent learning opportunity that interested your daughter. What becomes of the students whose parents don’t take the time and effort to do the same? Doesn’t the responsibility then fall to the teachers, administrators and districts to provide relevant learning for the students? Things really have to change and fast, but unfortunately education hasn’t operated that way in the past 60 years…

]]> By: Wesley Fryer http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60409 Wesley Fryer Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:25:58 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60409 Yes, I agree an assignment which involved the creation of something new using syllables (like rhythm patterns) would potentially be much more valuable that this worksheet. Yes, I agree an assignment which involved the creation of something new using syllables (like rhythm patterns) would potentially be much more valuable that this worksheet.

]]> By: Penny Coutas http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2008/10/07/a-worthless-worksheet-and-a-voluntary-voicethread/comment-page-1/#comment-60408 Penny Coutas Wed, 08 Oct 2008 05:08:05 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=3116#comment-60408 Another idea would be to use the words in a poem or song that focuses on the use of syllables to create rhythm patterns. Another idea would be to use the words in a poem or song that focuses on the use of syllables to create rhythm patterns.

]]>