Comments on: Showing full length copyrighted movies for leadership class http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/ Weblog of Wesley Fryer Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:55:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Blogging Too Close to Home | Apace of Change http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-125289 Blogging Too Close to Home | Apace of Change Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:28:03 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-125289 [...] latest post, he debates what to do about his child’s teacher’s decision to show ten full-length feature films over the course of a semester.  Wes raises questions of copyright and fair use, and I highly recommend you head over his way and [...] [...] latest post, he debates what to do about his child’s teacher’s decision to show ten full-length feature films over the course of a semester.  Wes raises questions of copyright and fair use, and I highly recommend you head over his way and [...]

]]> By: Wesley Fryer http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124142 Wesley Fryer Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:50:45 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124142 Wow, thanks so much for taking the time to respond and write such a thorough post, Dr. Hobbs! I encourage everyone to <a href="http://mediaeducationlab.com/blog/misuse-film-classroom" rel="nofollow">read that post</a>, as well as her post, <a href="http://mediaeducationlab.com/pub/non-optimal-uses-video-classroom" rel="nofollow">"Non-Optimal Uses of of Video in the Classroom"</a> also linked in that response. This has provided me not only with a better factual / legal basis to approach my son's teachers with my concerns (legally she's OK, but instructionally there are better approaches) but also with a parent volunteer idea: I could assist her from a technical standpoint in selecting and using clips of these videos in class. How ironic that my own knowledge and skills in being able to rip DVDs and extract segments would be a technical violation of the DMCA, unless the exception <a href="http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2008/comments/hobbs-renee.pdf" rel="nofollow">Dr. Hobbs petitioned the US Copyright Office for last year</a> would be approved... Wow, thanks so much for taking the time to respond and write such a thorough post, Dr. Hobbs! I encourage everyone to read that post, as well as her post, “Non-Optimal Uses of of Video in the Classroom” also linked in that response.

This has provided me not only with a better factual / legal basis to approach my son’s teachers with my concerns (legally she’s OK, but instructionally there are better approaches) but also with a parent volunteer idea: I could assist her from a technical standpoint in selecting and using clips of these videos in class. How ironic that my own knowledge and skills in being able to rip DVDs and extract segments would be a technical violation of the DMCA, unless the exception Dr. Hobbs petitioned the US Copyright Office for last year would be approved…

]]> By: Renee Hobbs http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124129 Renee Hobbs Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:31:13 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124129 Thanks to Wes and the many educators who have shared their comments on this fascinating case. Take a look at my blog post in response to this topic at: http://mediaeducationlab.com/blog/misuse-film-classroom Thanks to Wes and the many educators who have shared their comments on this fascinating case. Take a look at my blog post in response to this topic at:

http://mediaeducationlab.com/blog/misuse-film-classroom

]]> By: Oliver Quinlan http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124128 Oliver Quinlan Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:23:38 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124128 I would be more concerned with how long that was going to take- it can't possibly be necessary to show 10 full length films, surely excerpts would do to illustrate leadership? I would be more concerned with how long that was going to take- it can’t possibly be necessary to show 10 full length films, surely excerpts would do to illustrate leadership?

]]> By: LL http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124085 LL Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:14:59 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124085 Wow. After reading your entry, my first shocked reaction was, "Aren't there any better examples of leadership than Disney/Pixar movies?" I get the whole idea about "meeting kids where they are", but what about clips about Gandhi, or MLK or fill-in-the blank here??? Best practices my eye! Then on to the Copyright issue - you're right it is tricky and hard to speak up. A leader in my school mentioned something to the effect that ". . . yeah, kids can go download images from Google." And I said something about copyright and he replied, "Well it doesn't matter if the kids are using it for education". *sigh* This from someone who is supposed to be a tech leader in our district. I didn't have the courage to speak up because this person is my superior. I wish you luck on _your_ "speaking up"! Wow. After reading your entry, my first shocked reaction was, “Aren’t there any better examples of leadership than Disney/Pixar movies?” I get the whole idea about “meeting kids where they are”, but what about clips about Gandhi, or MLK or fill-in-the blank here??? Best practices my eye!

Then on to the Copyright issue – you’re right it is tricky and hard to speak up. A leader in my school mentioned something to the effect that “. . . yeah, kids can go download images from Google.” And I said something about copyright and he replied, “Well it doesn’t matter if the kids are using it for education”. *sigh* This from someone who is supposed to be a tech leader in our district. I didn’t have the courage to speak up because this person is my superior. I wish you luck on _your_ “speaking up”!

]]> By: John Nash http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124077 John Nash Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:16:21 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124077 I think the copyright issues are the least of the problems with this curricular strategy. Is it really necessary to show all 10 films in their entirety to drive home the whatever points are being made by the teacher in their lesson plan (which we know little about)? Concurring with the comment of @Jason, I am concerned that this gives the teacher a pass on doing the yeoman's work needed to, say, cull a set of appropriate clips, center discussions around them, and have students create new material or other media in the name of understanding leadership. Let's combine fair use with competent lesson planning. I think the copyright issues are the least of the problems with this curricular strategy. Is it really necessary to show all 10 films in their entirety to drive home the whatever points are being made by the teacher in their lesson plan (which we know little about)? Concurring with the comment of @Jason, I am concerned that this gives the teacher a pass on doing the yeoman’s work needed to, say, cull a set of appropriate clips, center discussions around them, and have students create new material or other media in the name of understanding leadership. Let’s combine fair use with competent lesson planning.

]]> By: Ben Jones http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124070 Ben Jones Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:12:13 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124070 Wes I certainly see your view on copyright but before I see that I see the following far greater concerning issues: 1. Time spent learning leadership skills and practicing them in authentic scenario based learning versus watching holywood mania 2. Eurocentric nature of the films 3. All leaders in the videos are working towrds great things not everyday leadship 4. Is the teacher a marketing machine for disney and pixar or a teaching and learning specialist (next point answers ths question) 5. Most importantly a distinct lack of creativity in learning design Ben :-) Wes
I certainly see your view on copyright but before I see that I see the following far greater concerning issues:
1. Time spent learning leadership skills and practicing them in authentic scenario based learning versus watching holywood mania
2. Eurocentric nature of the films
3. All leaders in the videos are working towrds great things not everyday leadship
4. Is the teacher a marketing machine for disney and pixar or a teaching and learning specialist (next point answers ths question)
5. Most importantly a distinct lack of creativity in learning design

Ben :-)

]]> By: Peter http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124064 Peter Tue, 12 Jan 2010 06:58:43 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124064 The fact that there are 10 movies is irrelevant as each would be a case on its own. More or less movies doesn't matter - it just affects the number of possible unauthorized uses. What matters is the nature of use for each particular movie. IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that's how it would break down. The fact that there are 10 movies is irrelevant as each would be a case on its own. More or less movies doesn’t matter – it just affects the number of possible unauthorized uses. What matters is the nature of use for each particular movie.

IANAL, but I’m pretty sure that’s how it would break down.

]]> By: Jason http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124057 Jason Tue, 12 Jan 2010 03:49:42 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124057 Ignoring the obvious copyright implication for a moment, I must strong disagree with the notion of showing so many films under the guise of teaching leadership. I see this as a dangerous trend in schools: show students videos instead of engaging them in a more meaningful way. Certainly one can look at each of these individual videos and perhaps strike a discussion, but a creative, smart professional shouldn't need 90 minutes of cinemagic to inspire real discussion in 6th graders... Ignoring the obvious copyright implication for a moment, I must strong disagree with the notion of showing so many films under the guise of teaching leadership. I see this as a dangerous trend in schools: show students videos instead of engaging them in a more meaningful way. Certainly one can look at each of these individual videos and perhaps strike a discussion, but a creative, smart professional shouldn’t need 90 minutes of cinemagic to inspire real discussion in 6th graders…

]]> By: Sharon Elin http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124055 Sharon Elin Tue, 12 Jan 2010 03:01:35 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124055 Your concern is justified, both because of the legalities and the encroachment onto instructional time, as noted by Ryan Collins above. As to your worries about coming across as a copyright nazi or busybody, you could approach the issue along the lines of hoping to warn the teacher and school district against possible lawsuits. You would be doing them a favor to inform them -- and your reason is to save them grief. Being a party pooper is the least of your worries. You might suggest that the teacher can play scenes from the DVD along with a lesson -- scenes, not an entire movie in its entirety. DVD players have digital time counters and scene selecting menus. It's possible and not that difficult to pull out pertinent scenes and actually, that technique would be far more titillating and fun for the students, who would be less likely to scrunch down into vegetation mode as soon as they hear that a movie was starting. Your concern is justified, both because of the legalities and the encroachment onto instructional time, as noted by Ryan Collins above. As to your worries about coming across as a copyright nazi or busybody, you could approach the issue along the lines of hoping to warn the teacher and school district against possible lawsuits. You would be doing them a favor to inform them — and your reason is to save them grief. Being a party pooper is the least of your worries.

You might suggest that the teacher can play scenes from the DVD along with a lesson — scenes, not an entire movie in its entirety. DVD players have digital time counters and scene selecting menus. It’s possible and not that difficult to pull out pertinent scenes and actually, that technique would be far more titillating and fun for the students, who would be less likely to scrunch down into vegetation mode as soon as they hear that a movie was starting.

]]> By: paul shircliff http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124054 paul shircliff Tue, 12 Jan 2010 02:10:16 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124054 I agree that this seems to violate copyright. At first thought the whole movie builds the story (otherwise it would be a shorter movie) so we need the whole movie. The teacher might argue that the movies are all educational and not entertainment because they are instructing on a certain topic. 10 movies?? Harken back to the day of storytelling and Fables to instruct our youth (even before my time). Now the fables & parables are embedded in entertainment videos. But is there a legal way to do this. (I keep hearing from students "Well it's not REALLY illegal" ) Could they find the key elements in parts of the videos? Possibly "everyone" has seem them already so they just need to refresh & highlight with clips to prompt discussion? But what if someone has not seen the movie (I have not seen all of them). A completely separate issue is does the teacher have the technical capability to extract clips from a DVD. How long would this process take them? I agree that this seems to violate copyright. At first thought the whole movie builds the story (otherwise it would be a shorter movie) so we need the whole movie. The teacher might argue that the movies are all educational and not entertainment because they are instructing on a certain topic. 10 movies?? Harken back to the day of storytelling and Fables to instruct our youth (even before my time). Now the fables & parables are embedded in entertainment videos. But is there a legal way to do this. (I keep hearing from students “Well it’s not REALLY illegal” ) Could they find the key elements in parts of the videos? Possibly “everyone” has seem them already so they just need to refresh & highlight with clips to prompt discussion? But what if someone has not seen the movie (I have not seen all of them).

A completely separate issue is does the teacher have the technical capability to extract clips from a DVD. How long would this process take them?

]]> By: Cheryl Oakes http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124053 Cheryl Oakes Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:58:22 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124053 Leadership, my vote goes to Madagascar and the music. Take me to the leader! In school, I would rather give permission to let him play SCRATCH the whole time. This may not be very PC, but oh my goodness. Cheryl Leadership, my vote goes to Madagascar and the music. Take me to the leader!
In school, I would rather give permission to let him play SCRATCH the whole time.
This may not be very PC, but oh my goodness.

Cheryl

]]> By: JJ http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124052 JJ Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:57:20 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124052 Our school pays for the licensing also, but discourages movies unless the learning objectives are clearly stated and tied to PASS skills or relevant curriculum. I can't imaging a teacher giving up that many hours of instruction. That is the part that is unbelievable and much more questionable than copyright. Our school pays for the licensing also, but discourages movies unless the learning objectives are clearly stated and tied to PASS skills or relevant curriculum. I can’t imaging a teacher giving up that many hours of instruction. That is the part that is unbelievable and much more questionable than copyright.

]]> By: Henry Thiele http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124048 Henry Thiele Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:49:23 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124048 I suppose the school district could purchase this license ($500) a year to cover themselves from non-educational viewings of movies. http://www.movlic.com/k12/rewards.html I purchase this for each of my schools each year. I would rather pay for the licensing up-front because I assume that at some point during the year somebody (teacher, administrator, parent) will unknowingly break copyright law with a full length picture movie. I suppose the school district could purchase this license ($500) a year to cover themselves from non-educational viewings of movies. http://www.movlic.com/k12/rewards.html

I purchase this for each of my schools each year. I would rather pay for the licensing up-front because I assume that at some point during the year somebody (teacher, administrator, parent) will unknowingly break copyright law with a full length picture movie.

]]> By: Ryan Collins http://www.speedofcreativity.org/2010/01/11/showing-full-length-copyrighted-movies-for-leadership-class/comment-page-1/#comment-124047 Ryan Collins Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:46:03 +0000 http://www.speedofcreativity.org/?p=4018#comment-124047 I'd be concerned with the loss of teaching time. Showing 10 movies would be over half the remaining time we have until summer. But anyway, there are licenses available for school districts to show full length movies: http://www.movlic.com/k12/index.html Maybe they have one? I’d be concerned with the loss of teaching time. Showing 10 movies would be over half the remaining time we have until summer.

But anyway, there are licenses available for school districts to show full length movies: http://www.movlic.com/k12/index.html Maybe they have one?

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